I took a look at "Catholicism vs. Baptist" and found several errors on the Catholic side.
>"3. Salvation: By faith alone vs. by faith plus baptism plus not committing a "moral" sin."
Should read: Salvation: By faith alone vs. by grace alone.
Catholics believe and teach that salvation is by God's grace. Read their Catechism and you'll find it around paragraph 1996.
>"4. Baptism: of believers by immersion as a "sign" of one's commitment to Christ vs. of infants by pouring as the means of becoming a part of the body of Christ."
Should be: vs. baptism of all by immersion or affusion for the forgiveness of sins and becoming part of the body of Christ.
Catholics baptise adult believers by imeersion just as Baptists do, but don't limit baptism to just adult believers or to immersion.
Catholics also immerse or affuse three times versus the one immersion of Baptists. Why the numerical difference. The Eastern Orthodox churches also immerse three times. Coincidence?
>"9. Saints: all believers in Christ are saints vs. especially "holy" people the pope has canonized, who can then be invoked to pray for us"
Cathlics also believe that all believers in Christ are saints and are distinguished from canonized Saints who are in heaven with God.
>"11. Priests: not a Scriptural term for the leader of a local church ("elders" used instead but never called "Father") vs. the term used for leaders of a local church and are called "Father."
Interestingly enough, Baptists while denouncing Catholic use of "father" often use "doctor", which means "teacher", to address many of their local Baptist church leaders in clear violation of scripture which says to "call no man teacher". Seems a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
Thanks for your comments. I just now realized that you had commented. If it has been a while since you commented I would like to apologize for such a lengthy time replying.
I certainly appreciate you pointing out the mistakes you feel that were made. However I have to disagree with each of your assesments.
For instance:
Salvation: By faith alone vs. by faith plus baptism plus not committing a "moral" sin."
Catholics do not believe in either faith alone nor grace alone. So there is no way that it could be faith alone vs. grace alone.
You are correct, Catholics do believe and teach that salvation is by God's grace. The problem is they do not believe nor teach that it is by His grace alone.
I dont guess that I completely follow you concerning baptism. I would like to point out that Catholic view of baptism is that grace is dispensed to the person being baptized by the priest.
I have never heard of any Catholic who was baptized by immersion. I would like to read more on this. Please link that to your next reply so that I may read on it a little more.
As far as the number of baptisms are concerned I do not see the relavance in regards to this conversation. Please direct me to it.
Timothy, I think that you have missed the point of 11. Also what verse do you find "call no man teacher"?
Last, I am going to turn on the comment moderator so do not be looking for it to be posted here. I assure you that I will humbly be looking for your reply and will gladly discuss this issue with you in private further. I want you to know that I do appreciate your comments but this site is more for directional use in preparation for a trip to proclaim the Gospel to the lost in Ciudad Acuna, Mexico than it is to serve as an apologetic site.
May the Lord watch over you and richly bless you with His grace, mike
I couldnt help but reread your comments and came to your point regarding baptism. You wrote:
"Should be: vs. baptism of all by immersion or affusion for the forgiveness of sins and becoming part of the body of Christ."
You have to admit that there are VERY VERY few Catholics who baptize by immersion (yes I visited your site...very interesting). Regardless, the point is still the same, Catholics believe that grace is dispensed by the priest to the one being batized for the forgiveness of sins...it is still unbiblical.
You provided several very interesting links. A couple were very credible. Yes I agree that there have been great great men in Catholic history. But I am speaking of ancient church theologians when I speak of great men. Since the reformation however, I would venture to say that there have been few to none. The remnant left the church. Yes I believe there are certainly believers within the Catholic church. They are not within the clergy though, they are the ones who are saved in spite of the Catholic church.
3 comments:
Greetings!
I took a look at "Catholicism vs. Baptist" and found several errors on the Catholic side.
>"3. Salvation: By faith alone vs. by faith plus baptism plus not committing a "moral" sin."
Should read: Salvation: By faith alone vs. by grace alone.
Catholics believe and teach that salvation is by God's grace. Read their Catechism and you'll find it around paragraph 1996.
>"4. Baptism: of believers by immersion as a "sign" of one's commitment to Christ vs. of infants by pouring as the means of becoming a part of the body of Christ."
Should be: vs. baptism of all by immersion or affusion for the forgiveness of sins and becoming part of the body of Christ.
Catholics baptise adult believers by imeersion just as Baptists do, but don't limit baptism to just adult believers or to immersion.
Catholics also immerse or affuse three times versus the one immersion of Baptists. Why the numerical difference. The Eastern Orthodox churches also immerse three times. Coincidence?
>"9. Saints: all believers in Christ are saints vs. especially "holy" people the pope has canonized, who can then be invoked to pray for us"
Cathlics also believe that all believers in Christ are saints and are distinguished from canonized Saints who are in heaven with God.
>"11. Priests: not a Scriptural term for the leader of a local church ("elders" used instead but never called "Father") vs. the term used for leaders of a local church and are called "Father."
Interestingly enough, Baptists while denouncing Catholic use of "father" often use "doctor", which means "teacher", to address many of their local Baptist church leaders in clear violation of scripture which says to "call no man teacher". Seems a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
God bless...
+Timothy
Thanks for your comments. I just now realized that you had commented. If it has been a while since you commented I would like to apologize for such a lengthy time replying.
I certainly appreciate you pointing out the mistakes you feel that were made. However I have to disagree with each of your assesments.
For instance:
Salvation: By faith alone vs. by faith plus baptism plus not committing a "moral" sin."
Catholics do not believe in either faith alone nor grace alone. So there is no way that it could be faith alone vs. grace alone.
You are correct, Catholics do believe and teach that salvation is by God's grace. The problem is they do not believe nor teach that it is by His grace alone.
I dont guess that I completely follow you concerning baptism. I would like to point out that Catholic view of baptism is that grace is dispensed to the person being baptized by the priest.
I have never heard of any Catholic who was baptized by immersion. I would like to read more on this. Please link that to your next reply so that I may read on it a little more.
As far as the number of baptisms are concerned I do not see the relavance in regards to this conversation. Please direct me to it.
Timothy, I think that you have missed the point of 11. Also what verse do you find "call no man teacher"?
Last, I am going to turn on the comment moderator so do not be looking for it to be posted here. I assure you that I will humbly be looking for your reply and will gladly discuss this issue with you in private further. I want you to know that I do appreciate your comments but this site is more for directional use in preparation for a trip to proclaim the Gospel to the lost in Ciudad Acuna, Mexico than it is to serve as an apologetic site.
May the Lord watch over you and richly bless you with His grace,
mike
I couldnt help but reread your comments and came to your point regarding baptism. You wrote:
"Should be: vs. baptism of all by immersion or affusion for the forgiveness of sins and becoming part of the body of Christ."
You have to admit that there are VERY VERY few Catholics who baptize by immersion (yes I visited your site...very interesting). Regardless, the point is still the same, Catholics believe that grace is dispensed by the priest to the one being batized for the forgiveness of sins...it is still unbiblical.
You provided several very interesting links. A couple were very credible. Yes I agree that there have been great great men in Catholic history. But I am speaking of ancient church theologians when I speak of great men.
Since the reformation however, I would venture to say that there have been few to none. The remnant left the church.
Yes I believe there are certainly believers within the Catholic church. They are not within the clergy though, they are the ones who are saved in spite of the Catholic church.
God bless,
mike
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